Red Letter Christ-centric Universalism 101: Two views on Heaven, two views on Hell (part 2)

https://i1.wp.com/obrag.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Heaven_and_Hell_by_katerina_m.jpg

I have two different views a piece for heaven and for hell, and again these aren’t views I hold with a close hand but rather an open one. I very well could be wrong in both cases, but still I want to put them here for this series that I am doing on Red Letter Christ-centric Universalism…

Perspective of Hell 1
My first perspective of Hell is one where for a time undetermined, the flames of hell purify us from our sinful dross. Sin cannot be in the presence of God, and so from the first perspective of hell I have (which I’ve been told is akin to Trinitarian Universalism) it takes time to get to being in the presence of God in Heaven because of the things that separate ourselves from ourselves, God, and others.

Perspective of Hell 2
My second perspective of Hell is one where there is no eternal afterlife hell. I am one to believe that we do create hells for others and for ourselves, but to say that a worse place exists than those I don’t buy into it. For starters it strikes me as control to suggest such a place exists, that if you do the right things (Orthodoxy) and say the right things (Orthopraxis) this will get you on the right side with God, that you will become part of “us” (hence the paradigm us versus them).
And the thing is, the majority of people who claim hell exists and that those who don’t do and say the right things are (supposedly) on “God’s side” (as if she draws up sides and leans towards one exclusively).

Also I tend to think that God loves everyone period, and to say “God is love but people go to hell for not believing in him” or something similar takes away from stating that God is love. I have been a dad before and God willing I will be one again, and in my time of being a dad I loved my sons and there were times I grew frustrated with my sons. Yet in my times of correcting them there was never a time where I stopped loving them, there was never a time where I told them I never wanted to be with them ever again. If God is both father and mother, if God is love, wouldn’t God want that re-connection with us more than I did when I was a dad?
I’d like do think so, I’d like to think that God’s love goes the distance in all our lives, not just those who are supposedly on God’s side. Which is why I dislike limitations put on God about how far or for how long we have an opportunity to “get right with God” because it seems very human, very limiting, to put a time frame in which we’re all supposed to get “this” (whatever this might be).

But then again, I could be wrong.

~Nathanael~

Advertisements

One thought on “Red Letter Christ-centric Universalism 101: Two views on Heaven, two views on Hell (part 2)

  1. Please enjoy my little comment about eternal punishment. I think you will see why God is good in the judgment.
    What does eternal punishment really mean? I agree people have to chose, and Hell/eternal torment is a very critical issue. In fact, think of renowned people for whom Hell was a big factor alongside Evolution and suffering (in one direction Charles Templeton -Farewell to God and Brian Baker -From Faith to Reason, and in the opposite direction ex-atheist Anthony Flew -There IS a God and Greg Boyd’s ex-skeptic father – Letters to a skeptic). Note that although the logic of Creation eventually convinced Flew, he could not believe in Jesus because of eternal conscious torment. As we can see, Hell is therefore a life and death very important subject. Although an oversimplification, please consider what is the Eternal Punishment by answering 6 questions prayerfully:
    1-How long do you believe the judging goes on in the “eternal judgment”? Heb 6:2
    A- Basically Judged & Re-Judged each & every day every moment Forever, for the rest of eternity
    B- Or finally judged just once…but last judgment is permanent, eternal, for the rest of eternity
    2-How long do you believe the saving goes on in the “eternal salvation”? Heb 5:9
    A- Basically Saved & Re-saved each & every moment Forever, for the rest of eternity
    B- Or fully/finally saved once…but it is permanent/irreversible, for the rest of eternity
    3-How long do you believe the redeeming goes on in the “eternal redemption”? Heb 9:12
    A – Basically Redeemed/re-redeemed each and every moment Forever, for the rest of eternity
    B- Or fully Redeemed once… but it is permanent, irreversible, for the rest of eternity
    4- How long do you believe the destructing of Hell goes on in “eternal destruction”?2Th1:9
    A – Basically Destroyed/Re-destroyed each & every moment Forever, for the rest of eternity?
    B- Or finally DESTROYED ONCE… but it is permanent/irreversible/for the rest of eternity
    5- How long do you believe the condemnation goes on in “eternal condemnation”? Mk3:29
    A – Basically Condemned/Re-Condemned each & every moment Forever, for the rest of eternity
    B- Or finally CONDEMNED ONCE… but it is permanent/irreversible/for the rest of eternity
    6- How long do you believe the punishing of Hell goes on in the “eternal punishment”? Matt 25:46
    A – Basically Punished/Re-punished each and every moment Forever, for the rest of eternity?
    B- Or finally PUNISHED ONCE… but it is permanent/irreversible/eternal/for the rest of eternity


    Were you consistent? Think! Unless you can answer A to #1-3 (for the just), you are inconsistent to answer A to #4-6 (for unjust) because these sentences with word “eternal” are exactly the same. So, if B to #1-3, then you should at least consider B for #4-6. If not, why not? The point of 6 questions is to show that our view and understanding of eternal comes from outside ideas/texts – not the word itself.

    Now, note powerfully that the DURATION can be exactly the same – i.e. all 6 imparted ONCE (redeemed/ destroyed/punished once) but all permanent, irreversible, for the rest of eternity, hence all ETERNAL. WOW! It would appear that the eternal punishment is not necessarily equal to eternal torment, when looked at consistently for both just & unjust. Now I think that both JRB’s cruel monster arguments and the free will arguments both try to explain a misinterpretation of the word eternal.

    Could I prove this? Could this be the plain consistent meaning for eternal in entire scriptures including Mt 25:46 and especially for all “eternal life“ texts. I`d have to say Yes! Although we have a measure of life now, Scripture indicates that eternal life is fully GIVEN ONCE at the applicable resurrection/ judgment… when mortality is swallowed up, when we will be MADE ALIVE (finally/fully ONCE but only) at His coming (1Cor 15:22-23), when we receive (once)… in the AGE TO COME, ETERNAL LIFE (Luke 18:30). Notice that in Lk 18:30, Jesus was asked “what” to do to inherit eternal life and Jesus answered “when” – in the age to come. So let’s spell out eternal in Mt 25:46 in a more consistent manner (i.e. the same for both just/unjust).

    “And these shall go away into eternal punishment (a just complete permanent horrific destruction imparted once at the just judgment – as per example of judgment of wicked at flood and at Sodom), but the righteous into eternal life” (a permanent life also imparted once at His coming, in the age to come).

    Again, WOW! Once it is understood that the gift of eternal life is basically imparted ONCE in the age to come (per John 6:40 at last day when raised to life from the dead), we can see that the eternal punishment is also a last day everlasting destruction FROM GOD’s CONSUMING APPEARING IN GLORY, a second but permanent/eternal death.
    With the above I have shown that eternal conscious torment is not necessarily found in Mt 25:46 (#1 verse quoted in support of eternal torment), unless we want the meaning of eternal to be inconsistent between the just and unjust, based on outside inputs, or verses, most of which are quite figurative.

    In closing, since Hell is such a big issue for many people like Flew and JRB, I think we Christians should make sure it is fully re-studied with a proper understanding of the word eternal, starting with studying the 6 questions above to see our inconsistencies.

    Finally, let’s think about justice: Just like before Flood, evil and injustice is now everywhere (downtown, ISIS, Boca Haram), and our Creator will have once again to restrain us by cleansing this earth and make it completely new, where there will be no more pain, suffering, evil, death, sin, and no sinners writing in pain in Hell. Earth will be re-created “very good”, just like it was in Eden with no traces of evil, death or sufferings, or Hell once the punishment is imparted. Just like the ark, there is again only one way to live on. The wages of every sin (big or small) is death. The choice is ours: repent & life in Christ or permanent death. Choose to live – it’s pretty simple – love your neighbor (created in His image) and love Jesus Christ the Creator and Savior.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s